Elsewhere on the internet...

The League of Reason has some social media accounts! You can find us on Facebook or on Twitter for some interesting links and things.

Philosophical nonsense

Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
 [ 28 posts ] 
Philosophical nonsense
Author Message
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 3210Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

Greetings,

And thus fall into the contradiction that God is bound by the laws of logic - which contradicts the claim that God created everything ... except the laws of logic.

Whence the laws of logic? ;)

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:28 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2628Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

Sparhafoc wrote:
carros wrote:philosofer... yooutuber


Socks. I call socks.



Called it. Lyin Leroy needs to get his manic fix.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:32 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2628Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

*SD* wrote:
carros wrote:can God create a rock he cannot llift?


Well, you could ask that, yes. However, most modern theologians, and even the relatively clued up lay-preacher won't be using a definition of omnipotence that would allow this paradox to be a problem. They don't use all-powerful / unlimited power any more. They use something like maximally powerful, or "can do stuff that can be done" etc.



One thing I found perplexing even back when I was still mired in Christianity was the notion that God, having just made the universe, done all the little tasks sorting it out, created ex nihilo all the content... then takes a moment to look around and consider it 'good'.

Setting aside for the moment the question of who is registering that consideration and recording it (5 times no less) for posterity in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy the Bible, was there ever any question it was good? Isn't the God supposed to have the whole universe-creation firmly within 'His' powers? Why (from within the Christian mindset) is there a note there suggesting it could ever have been anything other than exactly as God intended it?

Could God have accidentally created a less than good universe? Even assuming God intended the human wild card to mix things up a bit, is it implicit that other things than humans had some latitude that could have produced less desirable outcomes?
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:10 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1224Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

Sparhafoc wrote:One thing I found perplexing even back when I was still mired in Christianity was the notion that God, having just made the universe, done all the little tasks sorting it out, created ex nihilo all the content... then takes a moment to look around and consider it 'good'.


It isn't hard to imagine how this world could be improved, you don't even have to be particularly smart. Like, end cancer. Why an all powerful being who, supposedly, has humanities well-being on his mind can't do such a simple (for him) thing?

On another level God has to realise that he messed up because he tried to make things better many times… and failed.

This is what makes it so hard to argue for this this god and why appologists end up lying and contradicting themselves every other sentence they utter. When a lie is this outlandish and incoherent, it's no longer just a lie, it's bullshit.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:46 am
SparhafocPosts: 2628Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

To amuse myself after posting that, I actually went and looked up some apologetics about it.

It's even worse than you imagined, WarK!

Barely even a sentence was reserved to talk about the topic before they went into a multi thousand word essay on how great God is for doing it all! :lol:
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:21 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3499Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

WarK wrote:
Sparhafoc wrote:One thing I found perplexing even back when I was still mired in Christianity was the notion that God, having just made the universe, done all the little tasks sorting it out, created ex nihilo all the content... then takes a moment to look around and consider it 'good'.


It isn't hard to imagine how this world could be improved, you don't even have to be particularly smart. Like, end cancer. Why an all powerful being who, supposedly, has humanities well-being on his mind can't do such a simple (for him) thing?

On another level God has to realise that he messed up because he tried to make things better many times… and failed.

This is what makes it so hard to argue for this this god and why appologists end up lying and contradicting themselves every other sentence they utter. When a lie is this outlandish and incoherent, it's no longer just a lie, it's bullshit.


The major problem with this is that the Christian tries to claim that their god is Omni-god, when just reading the stories shows that it is not. As Sparhafoc points out, it makes no sense for an Omni-god to look around and consider if something it created was good or not. However, if Yahweh is only extremely powerful and wise, the stories start to make more sense. Of course something that is not Omni-god would have to inspect its creation to see if it is good. As WarK also points out, Omni-god would not need to keep meddling with its creation, but an extremely powerful deity with imperfect knowledge would.
_BONES AND FOSSILS = LOVE_
(_'--------------------'_)
(_.--------------------._)
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:42 pm
YIM WWW
SparhafocPosts: 2628Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

he_who_is_nobody wrote: Of course something that is not Omni-god would have to inspect its creation to see if it is good.


Self-aware metacognition still requires the god being the arbiter of that which the god creates. If god's works are imperfect, then so presumably are the god's faculties for judging the quality of that work. Either that, or God - the singular creator - just so happens to be a little more skilled in judging the quality of manufactured universes than in the actual manufacturing of universes - a somewhat redundant superlative skill, all things considered! :)

Basically, the verses there are just God patting "Himself" on the back 5 times for doing something that presumably was the only thing He ever did, or at least, the only thing He's really there to do. The only god-like thing that really sets "Him" as unique.

Unless, of course, God is a serial universe-creation bungler, and it was just relief that this wasn't another outright botch job. That would explain why he said 'it's good' 5 times... relief... "He" finally managed to make one that didn't crash and burn the moment it was switched on.

Given how well this one worked out, one can only imagine the cosmic chorus of abhorrently dysfunctional 'not good' universes pleading to have their suffering ended.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:02 pm
*SD*User avatarPosts: 343Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:00 amLocation: Wales, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Philosophical nonsense

Sparhafoc wrote:One thing I found perplexing even back when I was still mired in Christianity was the notion that God, having just made the universe, done all the little tasks sorting it out, created ex nihilo all the content... then takes a moment to look around and consider it 'good'.

Setting aside for the moment the question of who is registering that consideration and recording it (5 times no less) for posterity in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy the Bible, was there ever any question it was good? Isn't the God supposed to have the whole universe-creation firmly within 'His' powers? Why (from within the Christian mindset) is there a note there suggesting it could ever have been anything other than exactly as God intended it?

Could God have accidentally created a less than good universe? Even assuming God intended the human wild card to mix things up a bit, is it implicit that other things than humans had some latitude that could have produced less desirable outcomes?


Yes, that's an interesting approach! I hadn't considered that one before. Just goes to show, just when you think you've heard it all - chances are you haven't!
Image
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:56 am
WWW
Previous
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
 [ 28 posts ] 
Return to Atheism & Theism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests
cron