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AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

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AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday
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he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3222Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

PhilNEvo wrote:Have Mr. Enyart responded in any place or are you still waiting?


The debate is taking place here.
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Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:35 pm
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FrengerBloggerUser avatarPosts: 831Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Is 10 days quite a long time to wait for a reply? Do we think Bob is struggling?
Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:42 am
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brettpalmerUser avatarPosts: 174Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:21 am Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Frenger wrote:Is 10 days quite a long time to wait for a reply? Do we think Bob is struggling?


In another tread, one of Bob's disciples explained that Bob is having to go and read the scientific papers he believes support his assertions about the dino blood for the first time. Up until now, Bob has only read the abstracts and write-ups in popular magazines.
Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:19 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3222Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Frenger wrote:Is 10 days quite a long time to wait for a reply? Do we think Bob is struggling?


There is no time limit on responses in this debate, and if you look at BobEnyart's last post it took over ten days for AronRa to respond. We also have the factor brettpalmer pointed out. Furthermore, after BobEnyart actually reads the papers, he will realize that they do not say what he claimed them to say, thus once he is done reading them he will also have to come up with a way to spin them in his favor. However, he could surprise us all and admit the mistakes he made, but I would not hold my breath for that one.
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Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:47 pm
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brettpalmerUser avatarPosts: 174Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:21 am Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

he_who_is_nobody wrote:
Frenger wrote:Is 10 days quite a long time to wait for a reply? Do we think Bob is struggling?


There is no time limit on responses in this debate, and if you look at BobEnyart's last post it took over ten days for AronRa to respond.


This is VERY true. We certainly don't want to be accused of favoritism and of holding creationists to a different standard than we do "our own." Oh, wait...they already accuse us of that! Silly me!

he_who_is_nobody wrote:...after BobEnyart actually reads the papers, he will realize that they do not say what he claimed them to say, thus once he is done reading them he will also have to come up with a way to spin them in his favor.


You're starting to sound as cynical as I do! Am I a bad influence or does Enyart and other creationists just lead one naturally to such a conclusion? ;)
Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:53 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3222Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

brettpalmer wrote:You're starting to sound as cynical as I do! Am I a bad influence or does Enyart and other creationists just lead one naturally to such a conclusion? ;)


The latter. This forum is full of creationists coming here and turning us all into cynics with their ignorance, none-answers, cherry picking of posts to respond to, and general lack of manners. I always start out believing that this creationist will be different, but most of the time they all end up the same.
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Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:10 pm
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rareblackatheistUser avatarPosts: 40Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 4:48 amLocation: Indianapolis Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

he_who_is_nobody wrote:
Frenger wrote:Is 10 days quite a long time to wait for a reply? Do we think Bob is struggling?


thus once he is done reading them he will also have to come up with a way to spin them in his favor.


Or he will ask for the thread to be closed :lol:

Professional liars for Jesus will never admit an error that big. They can't.
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Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:38 pm
AronRaContributorUser avatarPosts: 511Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:47 pm

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Bob told me that I never read these articles -even when I could remember what they said off the top of my head from years earlier. He thought they said something completely different than they did -even after telling me that he read the whole thing earlier that day. Bob's level of reading comprehension is pathetic, the worst I know of. He misses details like no one I've ever seen. He eventually admitted having misunderstood the 1st FFoC entirely, but he also misunderstood every one of the citations he presented against me so far, all while telling me that he had a higher grasp of science than I do. No wonder he doesn't think this debate is "intellectually stimulating". This level of public humiliation can't be fun -especially when its no one's fault but his own. I can't even take credit for that. :roll:

Of course it is that much worse that he is financially dependant on his delusion too.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something
when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

- Upton Sinclair;


Once Bob is done exposing himself here, I would like to take on his minion, Will Duffy. That boy's wilfull ignorance of every aspect of science is impressive! The accusations he makes trying to conceal or excuse his and his master's foibles are laughable. Remember he's the one who told us to "follow the money" as if that would show a conspiracy on our side rather than his own. The fact that he never even read my first post in these threads tells volumes about his character -especially when he says that I should be embarrassed at my performance therein. The fact that he tried to deflect my 'game' comment back at me reveals a lack of maturity that is sadly typical of those who share his beliefs. The fact that he didn't even know that peer review means other scientists checking for mistakes in your work? That is inexcuseable for someone purporting to hold the position he does for as long as he has. The fact that he actually argued -with scientists- that peer review didn't really mean that -already makes him the poster boy for Dunning-Kruger, even before he claimed to have 'given a class' on a topic he obviously knows nothing at all about. We're talking about someone who's 'world-view' is made of professional grade industrial strength W.R.O.N.G. It is no longer possible to attribute that to either stupidity or dishonesty alone. At this point, it has to be a combination of both. On some level, he has to know that what he pretends to "believe" is not really true, and that he is lying to himself as much as he is to everyone else.

Winning a debate against a creationist is a foregone conclusion -especially a written debate where it is impossible to lose. The only trick is holding them accountable or keeping them in the conversation long enough that thier eyes adjust to the light and they see how full of shit everyone else already knows that they are. It is rare to see that happen, but it is a rewarding breakthrough on both sides, and I know I can do that for Duffy.

Image

At first there will likely be a psychotic episode -like any intervention-
but as this enlightenment is verifiably genuine, then eventually
at some later point comes gratitude -lasting forever thereafter.

Image Yeah, it's like that.
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain
Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:43 pm
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2536Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

AronRa wrote:
Once Bob is done exposing himself here, I would like to take on his minion, Will Duffy. That boy's wilfull ignorance of every aspect of science is impressive! The accusations he makes trying to conceal or excuse his and his master's foibles are laughable. Remember he's the one who told us to "follow the money" as if that would show a conspiracy on our side rather than his own. The fact that he never even read my first post in these threads tells volumes about his character -especially when he says that I should be embarrassed at my performance therein. The fact that he tried to deflect my 'game' comment back at me reveals a lack of maturity that is sadly typical of those who share his beliefs. The fact that he didn't even know that peer review means other scientists checking for mistakes in your work? That is inexcuseable for someone purporting to hold the position he does for as long as he has. The fact that he actually argued -with scientists- that peer review didn't really mean that -already makes him the poster boy for Dunning-Kruger, even before he claimed to have 'given a class' on a topic he obviously knows nothing at all about. We're talking about someone who's 'world-view' is made of professional grade industrial strength W.R.O.N.G. It is no longer possible to attribute that to either stupidity or dishonesty alone. At this point, it has to be a combination of both. On some level, he has to know that what he pretends to "believe" is not really true, and that he is lying to himself as much as he is to everyone else.

Winning a debate against a creationist is a foregone conclusion -especially a written debate where it is impossible to lose. The only trick is holding them accountable or keeping them in the conversation long enough that thier eyes adjust to the light and they see how full of shit everyone else already knows that they are. It is rare to see that happen, but it is a rewarding breakthrough on both sides, and I know I can do that for Duffy.



Good luck with Will Duffy. He is, as you say, the poster boy for DK. I think the aim when debating creationists should primarily be to try to educate the onlookers, and perhaps bring up new arguments and evidence.

If you haven't already seen it, Aron, I can wholeheartedly recommend that you watch this series by AntiCitizenX:

The Psychology of Belief (Part 1)


It's awesome stuff.
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


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Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:03 pm
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

AronRa wrote:It is no longer possible to attribute that to either stupidity or dishonesty alone. At this point, it has to be a combination of both. On some level, he has to know that what he pretends to "believe" is not really true, and that he is lying to himself as much as he is to everyone else.


Awesome post, even though I must to some degree disagree with you on this point. I am currently reading Deceit and Self-Deception: Fooling Yourself the Better to Fool Others -by Robert Trivers and even though I'm not yet done, I believe that he can be simply that: Deceived and self-deceiving. I know you've probably not got the time to read that book, but both Richard Dawkins and I recommend it. (If that counts for anything...)
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I shall achieve my objectives through the power... of Science!" --LessWrong
Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:01 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3222Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

AronRa wrote:Remember he's the one who told us to "follow the money" as if that would show a conspiracy on our side rather than his own.


YesYouNeedJesus did not make the claim follow the money, TheOnlyThing2Fear was the one that stated that. This is an honest mistake; they do blend into the same person most of the time.
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Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:56 pm
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brettpalmerUser avatarPosts: 174Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:21 am Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

AronRa wrote:Remember he's the one who told us to "follow the money" as if that would show a conspiracy on our side rather than his own.


Interesting that you should bring up the phrase, "follow the money." I've been listening to Bob's show the past few days and he's pretty desperate to raise $30,000 by the end of the month. I only listened to a fragment of his show today and it sounds like he's near $20,000 as of today. Guess that means someone needs to fork over another 10 Grand by tonight in order for Bob to have his miracle.

But it's not so much that he has a goal and says he needs to reach it. Many tele- and radio-vangelists beg for money. It's the reason Bob says he needs the money. He says (if I heard him right) that he needs that money to maintain his website. $30,000 for website? Really? When I had my own little site up it only cost me about 50 bucks a year. I'm real curious why his website requires $30,000 to remain up.
Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:59 am
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 4998Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

brettpalmer wrote:
AronRa wrote:Remember he's the one who told us to "follow the money" as if that would show a conspiracy on our side rather than his own.


Interesting that you should bring up the phrase, "follow the money." I've been listening to Bob's show the past few days and he's pretty desperate to raise $30,000 by the end of the month. I only listened to a fragment of his show today and it sounds like he's near $20,000 as of today. Guess that means someone needs to fork over another 10 Grand by tonight in order for Bob to have his miracle.

But it's not so much that he has a goal and says he needs to reach it. Many tele- and radio-vangelists beg for money. It's the reason Bob says he needs the money. He says (if I heard him right) that he needs that money to maintain his website. $30,000 for website? Really? When I had my own little site up it only cost me about 50 bucks a year. I'm real curious why his website requires $30,000 to remain up.



There's so much superfluous code on his website, he's probably paying his webmaster by the div.
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Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:16 am
brettpalmerUser avatarPosts: 174Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:21 am Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Inferno wrote:

I am currently reading Deceit and Self-Deception: Fooling Yourself the Better to Fool Others -by Robert Trivers...


By the way, I think that book goes by the title, "The Folly of Fools: The Logic of Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life" in the US.
Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:16 am
FrengerBloggerUser avatarPosts: 831Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Inferno wrote:
AronRa wrote:It is no longer possible to attribute that to either stupidity or dishonesty alone. At this point, it has to be a combination of both. On some level, he has to know that what he pretends to "believe" is not really true, and that he is lying to himself as much as he is to everyone else.


Awesome post, even though I must to some degree disagree with you on this point. I am currently reading Deceit and Self-Deception: Fooling Yourself the Better to Fool Others -by Robert Trivers and even though I'm not yet done, I believe that he can be simply that: Deceived and self-deceiving. I know you've probably not got the time to read that book, but both Richard Dawkins and I recommend it. (If that counts for anything...)


I think I would have agreed with you inferno up until about this week when YYNJ asked for the thread to be closed down. After all his belly screaming about how this Walter Remine paper was the proof of all proofs and no one could ever refute it, only to find it could and indeed was refuted like the nonsense bit of arse gravy that it actually was, he went quiet, and wanted the thread to be closed so no one could see it. This screams conscious dishonesty to me.

Throwing out papers that he hadn't read or understood but had been told were good by other twonks is fair enough, that's not dishonest, that is just stupid. But his performance afterwards is clearly dishonest.
Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:34 am
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AronRaContributorUser avatarPosts: 511Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:47 pm

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

AronRa wrote: We're talking about someone who's 'world-view' is made of professional grade industrial strength W.R.O.N.G.
That gave me an idea.

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain
Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:28 pm
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Excellent, I was hoping mini-Ra would make his own channel. :D
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I shall achieve my objectives through the power... of Science!" --LessWrong
Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:54 pm
FrengerBloggerUser avatarPosts: 831Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

AronRa wrote:Once Bob is done exposing himself here, I would like to take on his minion, Will Duffy. That boy's wilfull ignorance of every aspect of science is impressive! The accusations he makes trying to conceal or excuse his and his master's foibles are laughable


Turns out his Bob's minion is out to get everyone, anyone see his letter to PZ Myers?
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/09/bob_enyart_and_will_duffy_part.php
Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:05 pm
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gallussapienUser avatarPosts: 3Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:16 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

Am I th only one who found it odd that YesYouNeedJesus is working with Enyart? He posted this on Pharyngula:

YesYouNeedJesus
27 September 2011 at 1:32 am
"PZ, I would like to clear the record. I am NOT Bob Enyart's producer. I was for 5 years, but have not been part of his radio show for over a year now."

This was in response to a criticism made by PZ here:

"You read that, and apart from the creationist crazy, you get the impression that this guy is just someone with no ties to Enyart (other than his deep and abiding passionate love for him) who listened to the radio show, found out about these evilutionists, and ran over here to see what was up.
This is not the case. His name is Will Duffy, something revealed in the first few minutes of the video below, and he's Bob Enyart's producer."


I'm just curious as to whether he popped out of service with Bobby just to pop right back in in the most convenient timing possible, or was it that he is still lying, at least by omission and he still has the exact same vested interest Mr. P-Zed accused him of in the first place?
Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:59 pm
FrengerBloggerUser avatarPosts: 831Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: AronRa vs Bob Enyart on Real Science Friday

gallussapien wrote:Am I th only one who found it odd that YesYouNeedJesus is working with Enyart?


I'm actually really surprised to find out he was old enough to have a job.
Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:57 am
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