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Is evolution a fact?

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Is evolution a fact?
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SpecialFrogUser avatarPosts: 827Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:13 pmLocation: Great White North Gender: Tree

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Dragan Glas wrote:Start with SpecialFrog's ones - I'm sure he'll refresh your memory if you can't remember.

I think I'm done with attempting actual discussion with Bernhard, though I may persist in posting the occasional snide comment.

And I'll talk to others in this thread. :)

For instance, Larry Moran has an article on the very quote Bernhard mentions above.

Unsurprisingly, the meat of the article is far less sensationalist than that one quote. All it is talking about is the effect of horizontal gene transfer on pre-eukaryotic inheritance.

But I'm willing to bet Bernhard didn't even read the New Scientist article itself, just the creationist misrepresentation of it.
"Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest" -- Albert Szent-Gyrgyi
Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:17 pm
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 785Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

What is the point of fixating on Darwins tree of life? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Using it somehow as a point against (the theory of) evolution is like claiming that the problems Newtonian physics has with Mercury somehow is a point against Einsteinian relativity. In other words, silly.

This is a symptom of a problem many evo-denialists seem to have. They don't understand that science isn't the absolute truth, that science pregresses, making theorys more and more accurate (or dismissing them if they are proved false) and that there are no ultimate authorities in science. Absolute Truth, Everlasting Truth and the Ultimate Truth Authority are religious concepts, not scientific ones. The modern theory of evolution isn't Truth, it's the best explanation for observations. The current theory of evolution is not exactly the same as Darwins theory of evolution. Darwin wasn't right in everything, and the fact that he had something wrong doesn't mean that he had everything wrong.

Actually what Darwin thought about evolution can be dismissed wholesale these days without it affecting the modern theory of evolution one single bit. Sure he came up with the basic idea but that idea has been tested and retested, improved, modified, evidenced, modeled, added, subtracted, studied, challenged, examined and all around worked over so throughoutly that we don't need Darwin anymore. Although Darwin is important for theory of evolutions history, he is not that anymore and bringing him up in these kinds of discussions is little more than a red herring.
Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:37 pm
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4304Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

I'm going to be charitable and assume Bernie copying Dragan's posting style is just politeness and not trying to be a smart arse. That said, I shouldn't expect it to continue much longer.
Image
Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:05 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Greetings

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

As expected, you're fixated on what type of tree it is.

Darwin's original concept of evolution was represented by his rough sketch - since then, the representative "model" has evolved from an oak to a banyan to a thicket.

Whatever is the current "model" for evolution is correct - the latest representation is that of a thicket.

Now, having clarified that for you, are you going to address the real issues that we've all been putting to you?

Start with SpecialFrog's ones - I'm sure he'll refresh your memory if you can't remember.

Kindest regards,

James


So you agree with Darwins rough sketch.. But only the "current" model is correct.

Therefore you agree with an incorrect "model" ?

Kindest regards,

Bernhard.
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:17 pm
SpecialFrogUser avatarPosts: 827Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:13 pmLocation: Great White North Gender: Tree

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

It would be weird to live in a world where nuance didn't exist and the concept of approximations with varying degrees of accuracy was alien.
"Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest" -- Albert Szent-Gyrgyi
Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:31 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

I suppose there is progress.. I mean according to dragon glas the banyan tree has been debunked. He now believes it's a thicket. Super interesting.

Oh wait not believes... Mmmmm.. Accepts as scientific fact... It's a thicket. There that's more the verbiage that will be accepted.

Can you give me a diagram of a thicket you agree with?
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:54 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatar
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Posts: 2974Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Greetings,

As Dara O'Briain noted, "Science doesn't know everything - otherwise it would stop".

It's perfectly alright to use a rough analogy for a system, in this case a tree, whilst accepting that the most accurate model is, at the moment, a thicket.

Stick drawings of people are acceptable as a rough representation of such, whilst acknowledging that a anatomically correct model of a human is the most accurate.

Why can't you accept this simple difference?

The map is not the territory.

Now, address the points which a number of posters have made throughout this thread.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:27 am
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

As Dara O'Briain noted, "Science doesn't know everything - otherwise it would stop".

It's perfectly alright to use a rough analogy for a system, in this case a tree, whilst accepting that the most accurate model is, at the moment, a thicket.

Stick drawings of people are acceptable as a rough representation of such, whilst acknowledging that a anatomically correct model of a human is the most accurate.

Why can't you accept this simple difference?

The map is not the territory.

Now, address the points which a number of posters have made throughout this thread.

Kindest regards,

James


"It's perfectly all right... " Quote... According to you. Another assertion.

Yet the fact remains you agree and disagree with the Darwin tree. Interesting concept to say the least... But " it's perfectly all right".

Oh uhhhh let me argue like you ... The Old Testament.. It's a rough sketch... The New Testament model is what I accept.. Most current... And that's perfectly all right. So do you have Old Testament problems? It's a rough sketch. I agree with the current model.. Jesus.... Contradictions? Oh it's perfectly all right.

Lol


Evolutionists.

Apparently I can't use greetings and kindest regards... I'm in trouble again.. So I'll just say

Peace,
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:11 am
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Moving on....

Dragon glas.. Can you give me a model of the thicket you agree with?
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:13 am
CollecemallPosts: 372Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:53 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

I've suffered through dan dan and ACB. I have however found my limits.
"Every man is a creature of the age in which he lives, and few are able to raise themselves above the ideas of their time."
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ~~Voltaire
Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:16 am
SpecialFrogUser avatarPosts: 827Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:13 pmLocation: Great White North Gender: Tree

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

I wonder how one gets their brain into such a state that they think that it is reasonable to call the statement "approximation can be useful" an unfounded assertion.
"Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest" -- Albert Szent-Gyrgyi
Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:24 am
Steelmage99Posts: 177Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:43 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Image


PSA from Bernhard. The preceeding image is wrong, and its usefulness is an unfounded assertion.
Blunder that theists make all the time;

Pretending to know what other people think.
Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:12 am
redPosts: 142Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:11 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Steelmage99 wrote:PSA from Bernhard. The preceeding image is wrong, and its usefulness is an unfounded assertion.

Why do you have an image of 4-fingered hands either side of a screen?
I am confused as to how these are correct, except that perhaps it was merely illustrative?
Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:10 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatar
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Posts: 2974Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Greetings,

The need for (absolute) certainty in a sizeable portion of humanity is met by religions.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:01 am
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4304Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Apparently I can't use greetings and kindest regards... I'm in trouble again.. So I'll just say

Peace


I'll tell you this just the once; playing the cocky smart arse around me isn't advised. I've been doing it longer than you, I'm better at it and I can spot it a mile away. You've been cut an inordinent amount of slack here, don't push it.
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Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:49 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatar
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Posts: 2974Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Greetings,

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Moving on....

Dragon glas.. Can you give me a model of the thicket you agree with?

Bernhard, I've already answered that question.

Are you ever going to address the salient points made by many posters throughout this thread?

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:14 pm
SpecialFrogUser avatarPosts: 827Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:13 pmLocation: Great White North Gender: Tree

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Dragan Glas wrote:
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Moving on....

Dragon glas.. Can you give me a model of the thicket you agree with?

Bernhard, I've already answered that question.

Are you ever going to address the salient points made by many posters throughout this thread?

He's like a dog with a rock that he thinks is a bone.
"Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest" -- Albert Szent-Gyrgyi
Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:51 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Moving on....

Dragon glas.. Can you give me a model of the thicket you agree with?

Bernhard, I've already answered that question.

Are you ever going to address the salient points made by many posters throughout this thread?

Kindest regards,

James



Well ok since you have answered the question and I find no thicket model... Then you have offered no model you agree with.

Current or old

In fact the only model you agree with, " a rough sketch" from Darwin, has been debunked by current evolutionary biologists. You also claimed you agree with current model. But you don't offer a current model. You simp,y state you have answered the question.

Of course anybody who is following this thread ..... Feel free to quote dragon glas where he offered his " thicket model"

Please use page number so I can find where you found it. .... Reference .... So I can experiment and observe it myself that dragon glas indeed " answered the question"


Peace
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:33 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatar
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Posts: 2974Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Greetings,

Bernhard, you'll recall I liked to a article which described the "tree" as more of a thicket? You even referenced that article when you spoke about the thicket.

That's the thicket to which I'm referring.

Now, can you address the various points raised by all the posters which you've studiously avoided?

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:44 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Is evolution a fact?

Objections in the form of a question... Is not a point.

If you ask me a question on "is evolution a fact" thread... That is not an objection. That's a question.

What point have you guys made? Like really?

Tree of life...evolution concept... Can't even bring a model.
Fossil record... Abandoned
Lucy... Abandoned
Ardi... Abandoned
Age of earth... Abandoned
Horse evolution... Abandoned.
Horizontal gene transfer..... Abandoned
Thicket... Abandoned
Tiktaalic... Abandoned
Darwin... Abandoned
Aron ra.... Abandoned
Whale evolution.... Abandoned
Science ... Abandoned.
Telomeric fusion... Abandoned.
Dawkins.... Abandoned

E pensando ti " evolution" mi sopagriunse uno Soave sonno.

Sweet is understanding what is and what is not possible
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:45 pm
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