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LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCon

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LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCon
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Blog of ReasonHelperUser avatarPosts: 240Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:28 pmLocation: League of Reason

Post LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCon

Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:57 pm
CaseUser avatarPosts: 1080Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:40 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

Hehe, didn't kevjumba and nigahiga want to go? Nigahiga's got 2.4 million subs, that's 8-12 times more than the guys on that list for the awe-inspiring quality "many subs" (and 3 times more than Buckley, whose annoying voice I cannot stand for a second), kev's still got a million. Shit. Two point four million subs, what the fuck. Last time I checked he was at 900k.

Anyway, I think this is a much needed discussion and I'm thrilled to see if there's going to be any results. Can we follow it online or something?
I am determined that my children shall be brought up in their father's religion, if they can find out what it is.
Charles Lamb (1775 - 1834)

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:19 pm
AndromedasWakeLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 598Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:38 pmLocation: Captain's Chair, League HQ Gender: Cake

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

I'm not sure if there will be a live broadcast, but I sincerely hope that a recording of this discussion is made available somewhere, even if it's just the relevant points that LV can analyse later on his channel (fair use bitches!)

I'll also be interested to see if Victoria Grand is doing her homework on LV's video before the discussion takes place, so she can address her patently dishonest remarks about the myth of flagging campaigns.

Yes Victoria, I'm a platinum medal holder.
- I have been votebotted (heavily)
- I have had a video false DMCA'd
- I have had videos removed and restored due to flagging campaigns

(That's a gold medal, the platinum comes from being one of CreationWiki's top 10 channels to block and avoid on YouTube :lol: )

I can tell them first hand that flagging campaigns do indeed routinely get videos taken down which do not violate the community guidelines.
ImageImage
(( "We are 'star-stuff'. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan | Music! | Twitter - [ AndromedasWake | SiriusStargazer ] ))
Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:36 pm
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CaseUser avatarPosts: 1080Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:40 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

We can quite easily set up an experiment to test if her claims are true, can't we? Scientific method guys.
I am determined that my children shall be brought up in their father's religion, if they can find out what it is.
Charles Lamb (1775 - 1834)

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:39 pm
JustBusiness17User avatarPosts: 1484Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 amLocation: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Universe, Etc etc... Gender: Male

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

AndromedasWake wrote:This is a great opportunity for LV to bring forward questions on behalf of the community, and that's exactly what he's offering to do (what a scumbag!)

Are you collecting questions in this thread or will you be creating another thread under a relevant forum? This is a topic that's interested me for a while so I'm sure I can come up with a couple good ones. For example:

Economically speaking, copyrights are an artificial price floor. As such, they create market inefficiencies that result in a dead weight losses and increased demand for black-market goods. Copyright proponents usually stand behind the economic principle of "profit motives" as a means of justifying almost unlimited ownership of media products. How can they justify the their position as a free-market approach if the system they're defending creates an unnatural market equilibrium?

Further to that point, proponents TRY to argue that copyrights encourage innovation, however innovation becomes handcuffed if intellectual property is off-limits. For example, the wheel, pulley, gear, screw, wedge, etc could all be considered intellectual property - But try to imagine a world in which these innovations were protected by law and required authorization based on compensation :? In that sense, what basis is there to say that a profit motive is a stronger driver of innovation than open access to the products of human ingenuity?

----
I can come up with some more questions but I'm not sure if this is where you want them posted.

=====

I wonder if LiberalViewer has seen 'Rip! A Remix Manifesto'. It's a Canadian produced documentary so maybe not... It's the film that opened my eyes to the whole debate :ugeek:

ttyl
Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:22 pm
nasher168League LegendUser avatarPosts: 2518Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:34 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

JustBusiness17 wrote:Something something economics something free-market something something profit motives something something equilibrium something innovation something something intellectual property something something

Image Image
:) :P
A great Charity
Apologies for my absence of late.
Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:22 pm
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CaseUser avatarPosts: 1080Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:40 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

No wait, kevjumba is there... "KevJumba Meet-up: 11:10".
I am determined that my children shall be brought up in their father's religion, if they can find out what it is.
Charles Lamb (1775 - 1834)

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:37 pm
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

nasher168, that was fucked up... :lol:
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:47 pm
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

I just hope this doesn't turn into a "let's end intellectual property" argument. The issue is that people can easily have videos removed, and there's little way to prevent the abuse of the system. There needs to be protection for fair use AND copyright owners without so much abuse going on.
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:51 pm
DemojenPosts: 614Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:34 am

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

How about addressing the lack of revenue streams being explored in R&D departments meant to help the entertainment industry to increase potential profit amidst piracy?

There's so much focus on legislation and criminal charges that the entertainment industry will be unable to deal with the problems presented faster then they can catch them.

I liken this to a rescue operation...
In emergency rescue, piracy would be a knife wound.
Arresting and fining people to deal with potential revenue loss to the entire industry is like bandaging a broken bone on someone with a life threatening knife wound. The cost of bandaging broken bones without addressing the more serious knife wound is that you won't stop the bleeding. The host will die of blood loss with a bandaged broken bone.

In R&D for technology, technology develops much faster than laws and legislation. This will *always* be the case.
Governments need to stop focusing on the problem and start focusing on the solution.

Youtube put forth a genuinely good idea with profit sharing to help focus on the solution and some industry professionals are taking notice. Now this just needs more backing from the government.

In the future, television will be obsolete. The internet will kill television the same way television killed the radio. Sure, TV will have its perks, but it won't last by and large against this monster competitor. Television will take the same place as the radio against a medium of faster and always on-demand programming anywhere with little to no subscription fee.

The industry needs to build a model to anticipate this future or its going to bleed to death and THOUSANDS of people from countries all over the world will lose their jobs in a market that's been replaced by the internet.
Nunc ergo vos
"I think therefore you are"
Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:19 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5009Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

I do think, although not being affected myself, that the DMCA anonymity issue is one that needs to be addressed. I would like to watch/listen to the panel were it to become available.

And although it's somewhat off topic, I would like to comment on this
Demojen wrote:The internet will kill television the same way television killed the radio. Sure, TV will have its perks, but it won't last by and large against this monster competitor. Television will take the same place as the radio against a medium of faster and always on-demand programming anywhere with little to no subscription fee.


I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world, but radio consumption in the UK is pretty healthy... (90.6% - pdf) I listen nearly every day (I pay my license fee after all...). It's pretty vital IMO.
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:08 pm
JustBusiness17User avatarPosts: 1484Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 amLocation: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Universe, Etc etc... Gender: Male

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

Prolescum wrote:
Demojen wrote:The internet will kill television the same way television killed the radio. Sure, TV will have its perks, but it won't last by and large against this monster competitor. Television will take the same place as the radio against a medium of faster and always on-demand programming anywhere with little to no subscription fee.


I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world, but radio consumption in the UK is pretty healthy... (90.6% - pdf) I listen nearly every day (I pay my license fee after all...). It's pretty vital IMO.

Demojen, you're non-sequitors are epic!

I think you're over exaggerating how television will look in the future. Creative Destruction takes on a different meaning when competing markets become integrated...

Discussing radio, its an easily broadcast message vehicle that reaches large geographic areas indiscriminately. This makes it an extremely useful tool for advertising which means broadcasters have commercial incentives to create value for their customers -even if iPods and television have decreased their relevance.

In the case of television, you've completely missed the fact that TV and the internet are actually becoming integrated technologies. Broadcasting could become decentralized like the internet, or the internet could become a paid service like television (via net-neutrality). To talk about them like they are mutually exclusive competitors is wrong.

===

Here's an interesting lecture by Mark Pesce that deals with the future of television in the face of online technologies (namely bitorrent) :

ttyl
Last edited by JustBusiness17 on Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:40 pm
JustBusiness17User avatarPosts: 1484Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 amLocation: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Universe, Etc etc... Gender: Male

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

nasher168 wrote:
JustBusiness17 wrote:Something something economics something free-market something something profit motives something something equilibrium something innovation something something intellectual property something something

Image
:) :P

I'm basically being a dick to copyright proponents by using economics to explain away their relevance in the same way they use economics to assert relevance.

I wish they taught economics in high school so people could see through all the capitalist rhetoric out there...
ttyl
Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5009Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

JustBusiness17 wrote:Discussing radio, its an easily broadcast message vehicle that reaches large geographic areas indiscriminately. This makes it an extremely useful tool for advertising which means broadcasters have commercial incentives to create value for their customers -even if iPods and television have decreased their relevance.


I don't listen to commercial radio...
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Last edited by Prolescum on Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:29 pm
nasher168League LegendUser avatarPosts: 2518Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:34 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

JustBusiness17 wrote:I'm basically being a dick to copyright proponents by using economics to explain away their relevance in the same way they use economics to assert relevance.

I wish they taught economics in high school so people could see through all the capitalist rhetoric out there...


You know I love you really :D
A great Charity
Apologies for my absence of late.
Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:47 pm
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JustBusiness17User avatarPosts: 1484Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 amLocation: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Universe, Etc etc... Gender: Male

Post Re: LiberalViewer to discuss Copyright and Fair Use at VidCo

Alright, here are a couple questions more in line with the subject of the discussion:

1) How does YouTube feel about their website being used as a debate forum for subjects like religion and politics and is the unreformed system nothing more than a way to hinder the website's function as a as platform for controversial discourse?

2) Assuming the answer to the first question was honestly supportive of those uses, is YouTube confident that an unreformed system won't result in a mass emigration to a competitor site which is more suited to handling these issues?

3) If it's logistically unfeasible to process all DMCA claims automatically, why don't they make use of the "video type" feature to set up manual screening for videos categorized as 'Non-Profits & Activism'? In order to decrease any potential profiteering from this "loophole", videos with this label could be exempt from the profit sharing program so there is no incentive to post copyright material.
ttyl
Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:42 pm
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