Elsewhere on the internet...

The League of Reason has some social media accounts! You can find us on Facebook or on Twitter for some interesting links and things.

The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who Knows

Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
 [ 7 posts ] 
The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who Knows
Author Message
Blog of ReasonHelperUser avatarPosts: 240Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:28 pmLocation: League of Reason

Post The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who Knows

Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:47 am
stratosPosts: 141Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:55 am

Post Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

Quite an enjoyable read, and I certainly subscribe to the same conclusion as you've written.

Although personally I am not truly convinced that our universe can be thought of as deterministic, it does seem to have all the characteristics for it. However I personally take hope from the fact that you'd have to be a demon to understand all the input, and since I don't believe in heaven or hell, demon's aren't a reality for me.

So that is why with great joy I can live my life knowing that I will never be smart enough to know exactly how it is going to unfold. I might hazard a guess at times, I might even be right sometimes. But luckily not always.

Even while I know how my life's story is going to end, the plot hasn't been spoiled yet.
Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:14 pm
AndromedasWakeLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 598Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:38 pmLocation: Captain's Chair, League HQ Gender: Cake

Post Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

You think too much. I APPROVE.
ImageImage
(( "We are 'star-stuff'. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan | Music! | Twitter - [ AndromedasWake | SiriusStargazer ] ))
Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:18 pm
WWW
DeistPaladinUser avatarPosts: 337Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:35 pmLocation: Louisville, KY USA

Post Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

I've personally found the whole "free will vs. determinism" to be just as pointless as the one between atheism and deism. I personally do believe that self-determination mixes with nature and nurture to produce who we are, though the vast majority never exercise their will very much. When I try to debate this with a determinist, any example I provide of a choice that seems to go against instinct and/or upbringing, it's met with a shrug and a "that choice was inevitable anyway". There's no way to decisively prove it one way or another.

Side note: the issue of choice or determinism is independent of whether or not God exists.

Theistic Determinism: God exists and planned everything.
Atheistic Determinism: God does not exist but the future is still set.
Theistic Free Will: God exists but did not plan everything.
Atheistic Free Will: God does not exist and we make choices.
"The (only) Word of God is the Creation we behold"
- Thomas Paine

http://www.godvsthebible.com
Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:47 pm
WWW
VerdadPosts: 4Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:28 pm

Post Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

I personally believe that in this four dimentional time space that we are trapped in, there is only one future. Or one possible future. I came to this conclusion when I was watching a Einstein -documentary Einstein's Unfinished Symphony. Link to YouTube -video. In part 5 Dr. Brian Cox explains Einsteins idea of predictability of all physical phenomena. In his example throwing a dice can be predicted when you know all relevant factors of that particular instance. And since we are all made of that same physical stuff and obey those very same physical laws, there must be only one possible future that we are destined to "flow". The number of different factors are irrelevant. In that case you could say that free will is only a illusion.

I was a bit depressed when I came to this conclusion. Fortunately I also came aware of theory of multiple dimensions and that it basically, in some level, proves multiple futures. Well sometimes it is healthy to say "I don't know" to themselves. Nevertheless very interesting topic.
Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:20 pm
connorkimbroPosts: 19Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:09 amLocation: South Carolina

Post Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

Really interesting article. I've only discovered this site recently, so apologies for coming back to such an old (in internet time) post. I felt compelled to share a movie recommendation that is the philosophical twin of this article. If you enjoyed this article, you'll love the movie. It's a french movie, starring Audrey Tautou titled "Le battement d'ailes du papillon" (in french) and "Happenstance" (in english).

Hopefully at least one person sees this post and checks out the movie, it's really worth it.
Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:29 am
borrofburiModeratorPosts: 3508Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:27 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: The Illusion Of Choice, Or Maybe It's Not An Illusion, Who K

connorkimbro wrote:so apologies for coming back to such an old (in internet time) post.

Well, I hadn't read it before, so thank you for that.
Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:43 am
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
 [ 7 posts ] 
Return to Blog of Reason

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests