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Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Creation” Day 4

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Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Creation” Day 4
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Blog of ReasonHelperUser avatarPosts: 240Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:28 pmLocation: League of Reason

Post Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Creation” Day 4

Mon May 20, 2013 6:29 pm
FrengerBloggerUser avatarPosts: 831Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

Really enjoying this series. Keep up the good work.
Mon May 20, 2013 6:40 pm
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he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3462Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

Frenger wrote:Really enjoying this series. Keep up the good work.


Thanks and I do plan on keeping it up. There are three more to go and I have enjoyed writing each one. :)
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Mon May 20, 2013 6:51 pm
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VivreUser avatarPosts: 351Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:05 pmLocation: dungeon of despair Gender: Female

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

Hi Mr nobody
that was again an interesting glimpse onto the remains from the depth of time and a challenge of a big topic on a single page.

Juby wrote:the “Opisthotonic” posture, it is a sign of being asphyxiated to death and rapid burial. In fact, the rapid burial may have caused the suffocation that caused the opisthotonic posture!

How can water bury or entomb? To me water will float (or stir up) loose objects which thereafter sink to the ground. A flooding doesn't automatically include so much solid components which could overrun and bury everything in the way in an instant (like mudslides).

Is there any explanation where all that water came from? Did it fall from the sky or creep out of the ground - everywhere and simultaneously? Or did it start at a central point, like from a spring, and then flood the planet by pushing over its surface?


nobody wrote:The animals would have gathered around a dried/drying riverbed and a flash flood would have washed them down stream drowning them in the process. The river would have washed their bodies onto a bank were they would have been rapidly buried by the river.

Why would the river bury them rapidly instead of enabling a rather gradual sagging into the softened bank?


Another thing that puzzles me is to state that those fossilised positions show to be death throes at all. Well - to me the examples don't look like it.

Besides: 'Big Al' is shown with skin and tongue - is that how he had been preserved? He rather looks like he's going to vomit any second for being disgusted ;-)

greets ~ V


2 typos found:
- fossil to determine weather the animal died - [wether]
- was not lying around well the tendons dried up - [while ?]
Tue May 21, 2013 9:26 pm
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he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3462Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

Vivre wrote:
nobody wrote:The animals would have gathered around a dried/drying riverbed and a flash flood would have washed them down stream drowning them in the process. The river would have washed their bodies onto a bank were they would have been rapidly buried by the river.

Why would the river bury them rapidly instead of enabling a rather gradual sagging into the softened bank?


This is a good point and I should have clarified. First off, rapid, in geological terms is actually very slow by our everyday standards. When I say that the animals would be washed down stream and rapidly buried, I am not saying that would happen all at once. The initial flash flood might partially bury the animals on a riverbank. However, the rest of the remains could be buried in a matter of a few months by the sediment deposited from the river. The fact that the animals are being buried in a matter of a few months instead of several months to years is the difference between a rapid burial and a slow burial.

Vivre wrote:Another thing that puzzles me is to state that those fossilised positions show to be death throes at all. Well - to me the examples don't look like it.


Juby believes that the death pose is capturing the animals while they are taking their dying breaths. He thinks the animals died and were incased in sediment at the same time. I pointed out in the blog that this is an asinine assumption and displays just how little Juby actually understands about water and sediment pressures.

Vivre wrote:2 typos found:
- fossil to determine weather the animal died - [wether]
- was not lying around well the tendons dried up - [while ?]


Damn. My dySlEXiA strikes again. :oops:
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Tue May 21, 2013 10:26 pm
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VivreUser avatarPosts: 351Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:05 pmLocation: dungeon of despair Gender: Female

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

AH ! Thx - I missed to take geological time considerations into account while having vivid water in mind.


Juby believes that the death pose is capturing the animals while they are taking their dying breaths. He thinks the animals died and were incased in sediment at the same time.

Yes I grasped that one. But I cannot see that e.g. the semicircled form of the fishes implies in itself the moment of struggle. That is just a scattershot assumption. If they were all unbowed they might just as well been 'frozen' while struggling while being paralysed by fear.


ps: my bottom hint was just meant to hand over and spare me a separate pm
Tue May 21, 2013 11:27 pm
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he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3462Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

Vivre wrote:ps: my bottom hint was just meant to hand over and spare me a separate pm


I would much rather you do it here in the eye of the public. The only way for me to become a better writer is for my mistakes to be pointed out. I thank you for it.
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Tue May 21, 2013 11:33 pm
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IsotelusBloggerUser avatarPosts: 317Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

Yayyyyy, very well done.

I just want to add onto this and point out Juby's description of Archaeopteryx as half-bird/half-reptile. I don't know if it's intentional, but using half-reptile is too ambiguous. Theropod dinosaur is how it ought to be.

Also, I'll link to the abstract of this paper from last year which states the Opisthotonic posture is a postmortem phenomenon due to gradual burial in subaquatic environments.
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Wed May 22, 2013 2:57 am
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3462Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Rebuttal to Ian Juby’s “’In 7 Days’ Crash Course in Crea

Thanks for the extra information.

:)
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Wed May 22, 2013 2:08 pm
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